There is an underdrain system, except for the crosswind runway that was not built and is now several lakes.
Because of the flooding, DEP made them plug the outfalls and pump the storm water after treatment, but they never catch up between rains. The big "SOTA" sand filter is also flooded with muddy water after months of trying to keep it dry and then dumping the excess water over Thanksgiving weekend. As I said before, I expect them to blow out the mud and try to connect the drains near opening day when the ribbon cutting has the News Herald giddy.
Then the pipes will flush to the tune of a few more fines, and we'll see if it works. All bets off if they don't get some grass growing. 3 inches of rain = 300 acre-feet of water, more than these little branches they have ditched out can handle.
Monday, December 28, 2009
Storm Drains
Friday, December 25, 2009
The ECP Code
I recall they were given a short list from FAA of codes that were available, and the airport responded with 3 from the list in no preferred order. FAA then assigned ECP - any correlation is coincidence. They ran out of 3-letter codes with "relevance" to location, and often the relevance is no longer valid, like "PFN" relating to "Panama City - Fannin Field". I was born here and i don't know who Fannin is/was (or Hathaway either). The codes are all over the place - person names (JFK - changed from IDL for Idlewild, a place), (BDL - Bradley - Hartford), city names (BOS, MIA, TLH,TPA), airport names (RSW - used to be SW Florida Regional, now SW Florida International - Ft Myers), (IAH - Houston Intercontinental), and meaningless (4R4 - Fairhope AL), (YUL - Montreal), (ECP - NWFBIA).
There's an interesting web article about arcane airport codes at http://www.skygod.com/asstd/
"I recall they were given a short list from FAA of codes that were available, and the airport responded with 3 from the list in no preferred order. FAA then assigned ECP - any correlation is coincidence. They ran out of 3-letter codes with "relevance" to location, and often the relevance is no longer valid, like "PFN" relating to "Panama City - Fannin Field". I was born here and i don't know who Fannin is/was (or Hathaway either). The codes are all over the place - person names (JFK - changed from IDL for Idlewild, a place), (BDL - Bradley - Hartford), city names (BOS, MIA, TLH,TPA), airport names (RSW - used to be SW Florida Regional, now SW Florida International - Ft Myers), (IAH - Houston Intercontinental), and meaningless (4R4 - Fairhope AL), (YUL - Montreal), (ECP - NWFBIA).There's an interesting web article about arcane airport codes at http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html"
- The News Herald (view on Google Sidewiki)
Wednesday, December 23, 2009
On the Facts
02worth said, "Donhodges, do you have a set of plans, do you really know what the proposed stormwater treatment was?"
02,
Actually, I do know what the design is, and if you took the trouble to read the docs you would know too. I don't jump on here with things I can't back up. What the airport says and what it writes to agencies are often quite different. I use the written stuff or photos that don't lie. As a friend said to me, "Ink leaves tracks, words flow with the breeze." What do the words "state of the art" mean, absent any explanation? What does "Preserve Forever" mean, coming from a team that violated its permits in May 2006, before they were even issued? What is the "West Bay Preservation Area" without a map with actual dimensions on it? What is a corporate promise not given in writing?
Is it any wonder the people on here automatically go negative when any public effort is reported, not just the airport? We have learned the very hard way that what is said is usually either misleading or outright false.
Southwest Airlines is a breath of fresh air in this - you can bet they will have their deal in writing and retain the right to keep the books on it. That may come as a shock to people accustomed to just revising away inconvenient agreements.
"Donhodges, do you have a set of plans, do you really know what the proposed stormwater treatment was?"
- More stormwater fines levied against airport | west, airport, bay - News - The News Herald (view on Google Sidewiki)
Tuesday, December 22, 2009
State of the Art by February??
The "retention ponds" are an emergency measure they never had in their plan, but now that they are necessary, the airport board takes credit as if they planned to use them all along. The plan was to just rim the site with little silt fences and GET AWAY WITH ANY VIOLATIONS. This proved to be "optimistic" in the face of 1,300 acre-feet of rain. The pictures in April rendered that plan "inoperative" as Tricky Dick Nixon would say, so now they maintain ponds, pump when they can, and scratch their heads about how to drain them and go on the designed drains which have about a 50/50 chance of working AFTER THE SITE IS GRASSED. I honestly don't know how they get to May opening with grass, a dry sand filter (this is the vaunted "state of the art" feature, sorta like a swimming pool filter - it is now flooded with turbid water), and a drainage system. They probably don't care - the ribbon-cutting will distract the public and the NH long enough to just puke the mud in one big release, pay the fine and settle down to regular but diminishing fines as the grass grows and the rain falls and the creeks become ditches like they have made of Kelly Branch and Morrell Branch. These guys literally don't know a creek when they see one.
in reference to: The News Herald (view on Google Sidewiki)State of the Art Problem
The "retention ponds" are an emergency measure they never had in their plan, but now that they are necessary, the airport board takes credit as if they planned to use them all along. The plan was to just rim the site with little silt fences and GET AWAY WITH ANY VIOLATIONS. This proved to be "optimistic" in the face of 1,300 acre-feet of rain. The pictures in April rendered that plan "inoperative" as Tricky Dick Nixon would say, so now they maintain ponds, pump when they can, and scratch their heads about how to drain them and go on the designed drains which have about a 50/50 chance of working AFTER THE SITE IS GRASSED. I honestly don't know how they get to May opening with grass, a dry sand filter (this is the vaunted "state of the art" feature, sorta like a swimming pool filter - it is now flooded with turbid water), and a drainage system. They probably don't care - the ribbon-cutting will distract the public and the NH long enough to just puke the mud in one big release, pay the fine and settle down to regular but diminishing fines as the grass grows and the rain falls and the creeks become ditches like they have made of Kelly Branch and Morrell Branch. These guys literally don't know a creek when they see one.
in reference to: More stormwater fines levied against airport | west, airport, bay - News - The News Herald (view on Google Sidewiki)Thursday, December 17, 2009
More on the Local Identity
I was reminded of John Prine's song "Paradise":
"Daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenburg County, down by the Green River, where paradise lay...
Well, I'm sorry, my son, but you're too late in askin', Mr. Peabody's coal train done hauled it away,"
Probably works for Bay County and Mr Finch's slipform paver too.
"I was reminded of John Prine's song "Paradise":"Daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenburg County, down by the Green River, where paradise lay... Well, I'm sorry, my son, but you're too late in askin', Mr. Peabody's coal train done hauled it away,"Probably works for Bay County and Mr Finch's slipform paver too."
- The News Herald (view on Google Sidewiki)
SW and the Beaches
If any airline can succeed with this, it is Southwest. The subsidy makes no difference to the customer as long as SW is willing to try. They will do OK to Baltimore and Nashville in part because the "beyond" traffic is good, and assuming Delta rolls over for them.
Several airlines have tried Orlando and Houston before and it was always weak (not just those cities but east-west along the Gulf in general - New Orleans and Tampa no better). East-west and intra-Florida will make or break it unless they are so successful north-south that they can re-direct their excess seats there. The obvious new market is extending fly-in Orlando vacations to our beaches - a possibility but Disney and the other Orlando stops will fight to keep the traveler there. (If they can build China, they can build a nice beach.)
With the subsidy SW has the luxury of a "competition lab" at no risk for two years - I suspect the experiment intrigued SW as much as the fundamentals. Customers could care less - they will go where their budget and reasons for travel coincide. SW and St Joe have satisfied the budget piece - now the beaches must deliver a reason to travel. Panama City and eastern Bay County are "all in", having "contributed" 1/3 the cost, about half the passenger base, the community airport, and a natural resource that cannot be replaced or "relocated".
Good luck, beaches, it's your moment.
Thursday, December 10, 2009
The Airport and the Courts
Roger on the courts - I provided two depositions about the financial and enviro risk of this project, and volumes of comments on the EIS. FAA dismissed them by assuring the court that ordinary construction controls would manage the risk. They may even be right, but we didn't get even the minimal controls required by law. This is not my opinion, the authority has signed two consent orders admitting it.
in reference to: Airport again facing DEP fines | west, bay, florida - News - The News Herald (view on Google Sidewiki)Wednesday, December 9, 2009
Who pays?
itismee,
I don't know about the Phoenix fine, but the airport keeps getting extensions and is now shopping for a local environmental org to do an "in kind' project so they can claim its all for the good.
It really doesn't matter who pays the fine (unless Phoenix pays it from previous profits - very unlikely). Every cent comes from FDOT (taxpayers), FAA (taxpayers or passenger fees), or sale of the old airport (previously funded by taxpayers and land contributions). The airport board is not spending its own money, thus has no incentive to manage the project - its just a question of which trough to wallow in.
The only check on them is the courts, and there again they spend tax money while the challenger spends real money - guess who runs out first?
If any of these men had this project to develop with their own money, they would run from it like squirrels.
Monday, December 7, 2009
Revisiting the Promises (You can't go back home)
[QUOTE]Here's what the airport said in the 4/30 NH article. I wonder where those "experts" were last week. A team of almost 20 top construction and engineering officials hammered out the final version of a plan designed to prevent another uncontrolled stormwater runoff, which followed a series of storms last month that dumped as much as 20 inches of rain across the region. Under the watchful eye of Airport Authority Chairman Joe Tannehill, senior project manager Roy Willett vowed to correct any problems and usher in a new spirit of tight coordination between construction teams and transparency with the DEP and public. Here's what we got now. That worked well.
Posted by asterisque[/QUOTE]
A violator always says the expedient thing that will get the current heat off. Nobody remembers the promises, and the "problem" will just be another opportunity to PROMISE BIGGER when it returns. Its the old saw: all publicity is good publicity. Next time they'll promise to restore MORE THAN EVERYTHING at no cost to taxpayers (and don't forget: we got Southwest, so anything is possible).
Saturday, December 5, 2009
December 2009 Flooding
The project is violating its permits using its own historic and current measurements. They brought most of this on themselves by clearing the whole site with essentially no construction runoff controls, and it will haunt them because they are overstating what they can do with storm water quality in the setting. There is "fast", "cheap", and "high quality" - you can only do two of the three.
The only way to avoid this is to slow down and phase the construction; these guys are still accelerating and we have the spectacle of FDOT granting money to pay FDEP fines. As long as the money comes from the tooth fairy there is no reason to comply, but at least the PR-crazy boosters could stop claiming to "preserve West Bay forever" and blathering about "state of the art". That lasted about two months, and it was only to hoodwink the greens anyway. We are way past that phase.